^He didn't try and start it. He was just hand turning the crank to make sure the timing was good.

Do you think that maybe when your tranny locked up that the cam sprocket jumped some teeth and you bent valves?

 

If you're turning the cam and its locking up its because one of the pistons is at tdc and the valve is hitting it - you have to turn the crank to about a 1/4 way counterclockwise from the TDC mark on the crankcase then you can move the cams. With the timing belt disconnected and both cams in their "nuetral" position (all valves closed) does the crank spin alright?

-Matt

 

With the timing belt disconnected and both cams in their "nuetral" position (all valves closed) does the crank spin alright?

Tried that and the crank still does not spin leading me to believe there could be a nut sitting on one of the pistons and locking as it trys to reach its highest point before going back down.

two things:

1. had similar experience (non legend) turned out to be bad tranny. Not sure by posts if you've tried with tranny disconnected yet?

2, Go get some Marvel Mystery Oil and pour an ounce or two in each cylinder through the sparkplug holes. If its a stuck ring it will loosen up. Ive personally seen it desieze a motor that had been locked 10 years. Of course it ran like crap but it did unlock it.

1. Disengaging drive shaft from the tranny was one of the earlier tests since it was an easier one.

2. Good thought but the pistons aren't siezed because they do move they just cannot complete a full rotation.

Are your spark plugs out? I remember I had a bitch of a time lining up the timing marks on my motor when the plugs were still in. I actually had to use a breaker bar just to get past the TDC part of the compression stroke. I finally wised up and removed the plugs and it was much easier. Probably not the issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

BTW its "Cometic" gaskets.

I was still able to crank it (to the trouble point with the plugs in. I did however pull the plugs to check for damage to see if something hit them in the rotation, plugs are fine. Thanks for throwing out there sometimes it is the small things that get you. In this case I am just not sure which one it is yet.

I really think something fell in one of the holes because there was a long period of time where the plugs and the intake manifold was off. I will pull the heads this weekend and see if that is the case. Keep the ideas coming, were just running out of parts to remove lol. I pulled the intake manifold today and didn't see anything blocking the intake valves (from the topside anyway).

 

two things:

1. had similar experience (non legend) turned out to be bad tranny. Not sure by posts if you've tried with tranny disconnected yet?

2, Go get some Marvel Mystery Oil and pour an ounce or two in each cylinder through the sparkplug holes. If its a stuck ring it will loosen up. Ive personally seen it desieze a motor that had been locked 10 years. Of course it ran like crap but it did unlock it.

 

Are your spark plugs out? I remember I had a bitch of a time lining up the timing marks on my motor when the plugs were still in. I actually had to use a breaker bar just to get past the TDC part of the compression stroke. I finally wised up and removed the plugs and it was much easier. Probably not the issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

BTW its "Cometic" gaskets.

 

I would deffinetly try to put a magnet In the spark plug hole see if you pick any thing up?it's cheaper and takes less time then pulling the heads off?

 

If you cant reach it with a magnet run a piece of vacuum line off a blow gun down into the cylinder followed by a magnet and see if you can blow it around to get it. Good luck man, that sucks!

 

Id try this. Reason being you should be able to hear a nut or a bolt rattling around in the chamber if there is something in there.

 

Ok I could not find my telescopic magnet didn't really fit in the hole anyway so I broke out the Kirby to no avail so I said F it I gotta replace the gaskets with MLS gaskets anyway and so I popped the head off and I am not sure what was in there but she spins free now Woopeee . so I will order some gaskets and through them on O-ringing the heads may have to wait I gotta get this thing out of my garage. and I can do that when I am ready to swap in the TII heads because I wanna get or do a decent P&P on them.

 

that's strange.. a valve wouldn't really get in the way if they're in neutral position.. you sure the cam didn't pop over like they like to? *shrugs* dunno.. just suggestin ideas

 

the gremlin must have jumped out when you weren't lookin telion

 

It's simple if a screw drops in to the piston, the piston can't reach it's maximum height before transitioning back down the chamber preventing it from full rotation.

 

oh trust me a completely understand.. old fuel injectors. the little plastic collars.. decided to disintegrate on me when pulling the rail off my old prelude..

before i was able to "pull a head" (damn newbs. haha) and i did the same thing. vacuum. smack myself in forehead.. all of the above.

the gremlin jumping out was meant to be positive my friend.:hide:

 

I think he meant it was strange because you didnt find anything causing interference when you pulled the heads. It sounds like one of my typical ordeals to me. I'd have pulled the heads also then scratched my head when i didn't find the screw or bolt, but don't let it get ya down everyones just holding their breath and waiting at this point for you to finish up and excite us!

 

I see but I am sure that I did really you see the piston in question was at lets say full compression all the way to the top so whatever was in there would have slid off the engine while I pulled the head. Keep in mind the engine is still in the car and the heads sit at an angle. It is crazy to think that I am a mere days from firing up what could be potentially be one of the most power Legends on the forum.

 

nah man, i'd thought that too, but you didn't mention it. the chamber look good after you took it off?

 

Telion I'm sorry you have to go through all this head work to just find nothing that is really wierd, I did not know that head valves cycle have a "neutral" position I have the idea that some of the valves should be open in anytime of the cycles but not really an expert, I had a 75 International Travelall with 345 in it that while doing carb work I droped a big flat washer into the intake manifold but I did not notice till i started the engine and heard the banging noise cominf from one side of the engine, well to make short i removed one of the heads and found that the washer had completlly desintegrated and only found a little piece left so i wasted all that work.

Hope you get good quality HG now that they are apart.

 

I did not know that head valves cycle have a "neutral" position I have the idea that some of the valves should be open in anytime of the cycles but not really an expert,

I think what they are referring to is the valves position in the "compression" stroke.

 

man, yeah I got OEM I could not find MLS but this won't be the last time the heads come off

 

Well at least your not the only one doing a head gasket job =)

 

Lol, I gotcha. Well I really think it is my car that is dabbling in the dark side a bit, now if I can just convert and harness that energy and get her running again.

 

OK but wasn't Telion's problem that crank was not turning at certain position? If you set your 15 degree neutral position on the crank how do you know what is n the way if you are not able to move the crank? do you rotate the head cams to see if they are free and clear the pistons?

 

Correct. Sr5guy was not telling Telion how to find what was blocking the engine. When he posted that, Telion thought that maybe the timing belt had slipped. Sr5guy was giving the method to line up the cams with the timing belt off.

There is definitely no postion where all the valves are closed, thats why every cam has overlap.

After thinking about it, what I would have done, would be to rotate the crank to where it quit rotating, then back off 15 degrees. Then I would push down on each valve, until I found the one that was hitting something with very little movement. I didn't think of doing it this way until Telion had already posted that he pulled the heads:hide:

 

i've heard that you shouldn't spin the crank backwards but i'll back it off in either direction awy from the valves you need to before you spin the cams. when i had my cams set it was fine cranking mine, but iz a different engine. wouldn't mind getting to mess with a nsx. you think on yours there's a spot on the cams rotation that the valves are not below the hg or piston tops? where's the tdc mark pointed? ya kno man..tha marks always tdc, but on 2 strokes

edit: *bangs head to rage* :nutkick:

 

Like he said he had to pull the heads for new gaskets anyway!
Over done!
Now he just needs to get it back together so we can see it running!!! :thumbsup:

 

yeah, you can feel it hit.. just keepin steady slow rotation it'll.. just stop it self.
could check the firing order.. which ever valve is down and when.. compression stroke 1 tdc...*it's not attached yet, so just make that stroke be comp* or exhaust stroke depending on where that cylinder's valves are set... exhaust and intake are roughly 90 degree or whatever apart... exhaust going first then roundabouts 90 degrees later the intake. i'm meaning in that general angle. and a span between the intake and the exhaust again....excuseme..excuseme again spark being like 135 meh.. after the intake peak. so each pistons fire timing tells you where the cam lobes should be for the chamber. when you put the 1st cylinder at the tdc mark **the cams aren't attached yet so either stroke is fine. just spin the cam of each piston hittin tdc to where the cam's on the low spot* a good picture of the cams well tell you the order of the lobes and where to have it when any piston is at tdc. via when the timing mark on them is supposed to be. it's 1 rotation for the cam...damn i'm sittin here tryna figure out how to put this into words and i'm missin F1. lol *shrugs* i just gotta do it.. not so good at workin it out in me head

really think you can use the tdc mark by 1st cylinder and a picture of the crank and it'll tell you the piston arrangement by the crank pulley. and then spin the cams w/ the pic of the cams and their marks.

 

Heads are off, what ever was in there is gone so let's wait for him to put it toghter and hear it run

 

Ok as much as I would love for this to just be a teaser I want to get some info (I will also be searching). I figured if you wanna throw your 2 cents in as to what it could be off the top of your head that would help. Ok so hear is the issue when I fire it up it runs straight to 4k. here is what I know that it is not

1. Not the cable or throttle body stuck in the open position
2. I doubt it is the EACV as it was working before the build.
3. It could be the modified air boost valve I will replace it with a stock one
4. could be the TPS sensor, though I cannot see it causing such a drastic problem
5. could be a vacuum line of some sort
6. It is not the FIC because it is not hooked up yet.

And in the meantime I have this and no CEL so far.


Here is what it could be.

1 It could be the fast idle valve, I didn't block it off because I blocked the air inlet I will try to block it off all together.

 

Ok I have to eat so I cannot test my theory but I think the EACV and the boost air valve are connected airway wise and if the EACV is open it allows more air though it (and now) the air boost valve. I will try that after I eat.

 

2. I doubt it is the EACV as it was working before the build. quick test?
3. It could be the modified air boost valve I will replace it with a stock one. gotta keep an eye on some mods..
4. could be the TPS sensor, though I cannot see it causing such a drastic problem. sounds like air not fuel, and if the tps was off the cables would show the tb open.. tps would change the fuel right? and cuz it sounds like too much air...
5. could be a vacuum line of some sort. maybe, but i've driven with some not attached and it doesn't go to 4k..

fast idle.. vacuum's vacuum.. as long as it's closed one way or another it should do that.

gotta be air right? unless somehow you've got so much pressure being exerted by the power stroke that it's suckin in air way too fast.. lol ? right?