[reboticon]

So how much power was that car making before all of this? What is your estimate on total output once you get it all tuned properly?

 

[legendfire]

what psi are you tuning for? and what fuel system? im intrigued lol

 

[Telion]

you know I wish I knew what it was before hand and I still may get the chance to do a dyno of it in int's current pre-turbo state, but I never really got a chance to this year because every dyno shop out her had been booked for the last 6 months because of the GT Live event, which was AWESOME! but now that that is over hopefully I can find a shop that can do a little dyno tuning with it as it is so I have a good before and after comparison. As for any speculation about what I think it will do when it is done, I have no idea and can't speculate due to my lack of knowlege of turbos and the effect they have on our engines. Being that the current turbos have a preset wastegate I will say 7psi. Later (hopefulley not sooner than later) I may either weld the wastegates and try to get another lb. or 2 but they would not be good for much more than that so the goal at that time would be to bu one more that is the same size as the larger turbo that I have and run a pair of those, but that would be very far into the future. For now I just wanna get it done and see what she throws down.

As far as fuel system I am not sure what you are referring to but I will guess
ready to go in place are

an adjustable fuel pressure regulator
450cc DSM injectors
255lph Walbro fuel pump
RL fuel rails
AFC Neo
and a goal to be able to create a dyno based chip that will do most of the work for the NEO
(trying not to need an FMU)
I am also going to read up on 3 bar map sensors and some new thing that is said to be able to replace and be better than "The Missing Link map re-sender unit." <don't know much about this yet. And if all else fails I guess I too will drop a G (but I don't think I will need to at 7psi)

 

[Telion]

I have two sets of custom cnc machined 1/2" thick mild steel Legend head flanges for sale, along with many other parts carefully chosen for a Legend twin turbo setup. I also have plans/pictures if you're interested just e-mail me for them.

http://www.acura-legend.com/vbullet.../f38/fs-94-gs-6mt-blk-blk-92-ls-coupe-silver-lots-mods-parts-upstate-ny-124802/

Got um, and YOU ARE THE MAN! The quality, price, and shipping was 2nd to none! Pics in a bit.

 

[Telion]

Ok here are pics of the exhaust header flanges that will be mated to the 350z headers

 

[Telion]

Ok when I said that I had just about everything that I would need because of the current SC project, boy was I wrong! Just throwing the exhaust system into the mix threw me off cost wise, wow! and that is with the good deals and combined shipping. so what did I forget.

The flanges from the Y to the exhaust (I hate that my current exhaust is one piece).

The flanges that mount the turbos to the piping
The flexpipe for the exhaust system
The highflow cat

And things I didn't forget about but spent more than I anticipated on were.

The 350Z headers
The flanges for it

so long story short, this whole doing it on a budget has shot the budget. and there will be no body work done this year from the looks of it I guess there is a cost with doing it right, and I don't even have the thermotec wrap or ss lines for the power steering yet oh shizz. Not to mention the radiator hoses.

And now it is time for the flaming, but in my opinion for this type of build I could not commit to going with a dual tip exhaust or splitting it for the purpose of looks vs. functionality

TOP SPEED AUTO ACCESSORIES, INC. < as always, in no way am I affiliated with this seller.

 

[Dethred]

Is it possible to get the spark/fuel values from a tune using the AEM EMS and make a chip for it, and then sell the EMS? If so, that might save money. Heck, if you can make a chip based on a proper tune for those that might, in the future, go F.I., it could save people lots of money and make some for you.:dunno:

 

[Telion]

Is it possible to get the spark/fuel values from a tune using the AEM EMS and make a chip for it, and then sell the EMS? If so, that might save money. Heck, if you can make a chip based on a proper tune for those that might, in the future, go F.I., it could save people lots of money and make some for you.:dunno:

I have a similar idea not using the EMS, but each setup (unless and really if it) was a kit deal would require an individualized tune, but I could possibly get close enough where an AFC could dial it in. but in this arena I still think an individual tune would be best.

 

[Dethred]

I have a similar idea not using the EMS, but each setup (unless and really if it) was a kit deal would require an individualized tune, but I could possibly get close enough where an AFC could dial it in. but in this arena I still think an individual tune would be best.

What I meant (forgive my lack of clarity as usual) was that a person can buy an EMS, get a tune, send you the values, you make a chip based on their specific tune, and they sell the EMS. I don't know how much work it would be, but you could probably sell the chips for 500-800 and people would save money.

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

Those values on a standalone EMS would not translate to the factory chip, in any meaningful way.

It simply doesn't work like that.

 

[Dethred]

Those values on a standalone EMS would not translate to the factory chip, in any meaningful way.

It simply doesn't work like that.

I wasn't meaning literally copying over the exact data, but finding the fuel mix, spark, etc. I don't know, just an idea...

 

[reboticon]

And now it is time for the flaming, but in my opinion for this type of build I could not commit to going with a dual tip exhaust or splitting it for the purpose of looks vs. functionality

Two Words for ya. Side Pipes. (yes i am a *******)

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

I wasn't meaning literally copying over the exact data, but finding the fuel mix, spark, etc. I don't know, just an idea...

What I meant is that a standalone EMS will manage the engine in a totally different manner than the factory ECU. Sensor calibrations, voltage variances, injector drive method, ignition dwell time, O2 feedback, etc etc etc.

I'd be surprised if anybody would seriously try to translate a tune from one EMS to the other and expect success...there are too many variables above and beyond the table values even if translated over.

 

[Telion]

yes, what do you need. you've got pm.

now I have got more than that, good timing

 

[Dv8]

Can anyone in here tell me what a turbo is...?


~Dv8

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

I think you're in the wrong place to be asking questions and getting answers. :rofl:

 

[Telion]

Can anyone in here tell me what a turbo is...?
~Dv8

I don't have the slightest clue, but I will be posting some pictures you may find interesting.

Runner dimension differences

Runner diameter differences

Differences in the sizes of the collectors

hmmm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Courtesy of Wiki :EDIT: This response was not intended to disrespect DV8 as I know his question was not directed toward me.
A turbocharger consists of a turbine and a compressor linked by a shared axle. The turbine inlet receives exhaust gases from the engine causing the turbine wheel to rotate. This rotation drives the compressor, compressing ambient air and delivering it to the air intake manifold of the engine at higher pressure, resulting in a greater amount of the air entering the cylinder. In some instances, compressed air is routed through an intercooler before introduction to the intake manifold.

The objective of a turbocharger is the same as a supercharger; to improve upon the size-to-output efficiency of an engine by solving one of its cardinal limitations. A naturally aspirated automobile engine uses only the downward stroke of a piston to create an area of low pressure in order to draw air into the cylinder through the intake valves. Because the pressure in the atmosphere is no more than approximately 14.7 PSI, there ultimately will be a limit to the pressure difference across the intake valves and thus the amount of airflow entering the combustion chamber. This ability to fill the cylinder with air is its volumetric efficiency. Because the turbocharger increases the pressure at the point where air is entering the cylinder, a greater mass of air will be forced in as the inlet manifold pressure increases. The additional air makes it possible to add more fuel, increasing the power and torque output of the engine.

Because the pressure in the cylinder must not go too high to avoid detonation and physical damage, the intake pressure must be controlled by controlling the rotational speed of the turbocharger. The control function is performed by a wastegate, which routes some of the exhaust flow away from the exhaust turbine. This controls shaft speed and regulates air pressure in the intake manifold.

The application of a compressor to increase pressure at the point of cylinder air intake is often referred to as forced induction. Centrifugal superchargers compress air in the same fashion as a turbocharger. However, the energy to spin the supercharger is taken from the rotating output energy of the engine's crankshaft as opposed to normally exhausted gas from the engine. Superchargers use output energy from an engine to achieve a net gain, which must be provided from some of the engine's total output. Turbochargers, on the other hand, convert some of the piston engine's exhaust into useful work. This energy would otherwise be wasted heat out the exhaust. This means that a turbocharger is a more efficient use of the heat energy obtained from the fuel than a supercharger.
(This last sentence in my opinion is a little bias, and I do not fully agree with it)

Turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[reboticon]

Are those differences between the OBX and the Z or between either heads manifold?

A turbo will ALWAYS be more thermoefficient than a supercharger.. Unless its one of those "electric" superchargers just look how much power an A/C compressor steals.

(or was that a joke because you read grumps thesis on it?)

Gasoline engines have been around for over 100 years, and in that time we have only been able to bump their thermoefficiency from about 18% to around 27%.

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

This means that a turbocharger is a more efficient use of the heat energy obtained from the fuel than a supercharger.
(This last sentence in my opinion is a little bias, and I do not fully agree with it)

You better agree with it, or I'll beat you about the head with even more logic and facts.

 

[Telion]

DV8 brings up a good point and I wanna clarify it for a sec. I am going to assume that his point of frustration came about when the duplicating a tune was brought up. see in very lamen terms a turbo increases the amount of air within the engine by forcing more air into it than it could do in a naturally aspirated form. In itself it seems simple enough. But then this only becomes effective if you maintain a balanced amount of fuel to compensate for the additional (compressed) air (A/F ratio). Now to take the air fuel ratio from one car and duplicate it for others with a build of this degree would require it to be specific to an amplified degree. Think of using a digital camera at full zoom vs. at no zoom, at full zoom if you move the slightest bit it shows to a greater degree than a no zoom shot would because the necessity of accuracy in A/F is amplified (a little off sorry). so realistically once you throw in each variable, ie variations in turbos, engine and component(s) condition, exhaust setup, piping size volume capacity variations based on differences in the build, and what not you get further away from the ability to duplicate or create a base tune off one car (think of these variables as more and more zoom on the camera) so the base tune becomes way off base. Though flawed the idea is sound in theory if everything above were exactly the same. I don't think he was literally asking if any of us know what a turbo is but more so if we understand to some degree the role it plays in the actual tuning of an engine and the possibilities of duplicating this effectively as a base tune for other cars. Now of course being that my knowlege of turbos and forced induction is very limited in itself I too could be off base in everything I just said lol.